Wreck Specialty, Worth it?

[frankc420]

Ok so I've been thinking.  If I go to the big O again, I'm going to want to penetrate the wide open areas on the tower.  For those that don't know, many areas of the O tower are like square boxs with openings all around the box.  I know there are several areas that are HUGE rooms with at least 4 exit points.

But, I'm curious to know, when do you get to the point that you are able to enter a wreck, training wise, and will know what to look for risk wise?

To my knowledge, the wreck specialty does not teach penetration.  So, at what point do you learn the techniques for penetration?  If I'm wrong about wreck not teaching penetrating, even light pen, please correct me, I would love to be wrong.  My thinking is wreck wouldn't teach it, but taking cavern would get me the closest? 

This question is mostly aimed at Don, Pierce, Rob, and Jim.

[frankc420]

Ok so after posting this, I've read up some on SB to see what the PADI wreck spec actually offers.  Many say there is a penetration module, but most instructors don't touch on the subject too much.

I'm only wanting to penetrate the large areas where I can see natural light.

[jimdiverman]

Ok so I've been thinking.  If I go to the big O again, I'm going to want to penetrate the wide open areas on the tower.  For those that don't know, many areas of the O tower are like square boxs with openings all around the box.  I know there are several areas that are HUGE rooms with at least 4 exit points.

But, I'm curious to know, when do you get to the point that you are able to enter a wreck, training wise, and will know what to look for risk wise?

To my knowledge, the wreck specialty does not teach penetration.  So, at what point do you learn the techniques for penetration?  If I'm wrong about wreck not teaching penetrating, even light pen, please correct me, I would love to be wrong.  My thinking is wreck wouldn't teach it, but taking cavern would get me the closest? 

This question is mostly aimed at Don, Pierce, Rob, and Jim.

How about I let you know in July.  I am taking Advanced Wreck with Richie Kohler June 28th to July 2nd in Point Pleasant, New Jersey.  We are making 6 dives on the Independence II, and will be earning a TDI Advanced Wreck certification.  I have never penetrated a wreck, yet.. and as I understand it, wreck penetration is not taught in basic wreck courses.  It WILL be taught on the course I am taking, but I have not received any of the course materials yet, so I have not even started to review it yet.

Maybe someone else has already been through this.  I am looking forward to this course.

Jim

[jimdiverman]

Ok so after posting this, I've read up some on SB to see what the PADI wreck spec actually offers.  Many say there is a penetration module, but most instructors don't touch on the subject too much.

I'm only wanting to penetrate the large areas where I can see natural light.

Having not studied or taken a penetration course yet, I would think that any overhead environment would require two additional sources of light where light penetrates, and a continuous line to open water, and a thrird source of light where no light exists.  In the case of a wreck, it may also be required to have a constant blinking strobe at the penetration point, and possibly even the upline.  Like I said, I am on the verge of learning about this myself.  But there must be some similarities to cavern.

Jim

[mwhities]

I'm not Don, Pierce, Rob, or Jim but, I do know that recreational agencies do NOT train to penetrate wrecks. The only teach you what to look out for such as fishing line, nets, metal that is sticking out and different things like that.

Now, if you went with a tech agency, IANTD, TDI, and others, the actually teach penetration into wrecks. Of course, you'd need more gear (can light. ;P) and probably more dives under your belt before they'd even think about allowing you.

With that being said, I think Cavern would be a great class to take that would get you "started". Gas management, running line, and situational awareness I feel would be the main focus points.

Personally, I'm glad to see you ask these questions. This means we are somewhat on the same track with diving. I want to eventually be able to penetrate wrecks (not deep) and enjoy other views OW divers can't.

I hope this helps...

Michael

[frankc420]

Ok great, I look forward to hearing your review of the advanced wreck course.

By the time I dive the O again, I would have my primary and two backups (one on each shoulder strap).

I'm not Don, Pierce, Rob, or Jim but, I do know that recreational agencies do NOT train to penetrate wrecks. The only teach you what to look out for such as fishing line, nets, metal that is sticking out and different things like that.

Now, if you went with a tech agency, IANTD, TDI, and others, the actually teach penetration into wrecks. Of course, you'd need more gear (can light. ;P) and probably more dives under your belt before they'd even think about allowing you.

With that being said, I think Cavern would be a great class to take that would get you "started". Gas management, running line, and situational awareness I feel would be the main focus points.

Personally, I'm glad to see you ask these questions. This means we are somewhat on the same track with diving. I want to eventually be able to penetrate wrecks (not deep) and enjoy other views OW divers can't.

I hope this helps...

Michael

Once you dive the O, you will see what I saw and wish you had the training and confidence to penetrate.  To be honest, I did penetrate it on my first dive, but only into very small rooms that had no silt and nothing to get caught on, entrance and exit points were 7-10' apart.

I will for sure have my pony with me as well.

[jimdiverman]

Ok great, I look forward to hearing your review of the advanced wreck course.

By the time I dive the O again, I would have my primary and two backups (one on each shoulder strap).

I am replacing one of my backups this weekend with the Intova 3W from Cave Adventurers.  Edd is selling them for $80 for a pair now.  Its a great deal.  My other backup is an LED light, but it is the pressure switch kind, and it turns on by itself at depth constantly annoying me. 

Jim

[mwhities]

Once you dive the O, you will see what I saw and wish you had the training and confidence to penetrate.  To be honest, I did penetrate it on my first dive, but only into very small rooms that had no silt and nothing to get caught on, entrance and exit points were 7-10' apart.

I will for sure have my pony with me as well.

I have the confidence (at least more now then before) but, I still won't do it without training. I might do a small (if they are big enough for me) swim through but, nothing more than that. Unless I have my reels... haha Ok, ok, I gotta stop. I'm actually willing to do it now.. Agh! I didn't say that...

I WANT TO GO DO THE ORISKANY!!!

Ok, if you are interested in tech wreck training, let me know. I think my instructor can do it. We could take the class together and if anyone else wants to too.

Michael

[mwhities]

I am replacing one of my backups this weekend with the Intova 3W from Cave Adventurers.  Edd is selling them for $80 for a pair now.  Its a great deal.  My other backup is an LED light, but it is the pressure switch kind, and it turns on by itself at depth constantly annoying me. 

Jim

Jim,

I bought two of these as well. (Didn't we already talk about this? ) I have two silver ones that are the tight beams.

I gave Frank one of my Intova's I bought to use this weekend. I think he likes them. I'll let him tell you.

Michael

[jimdiverman]

Jim,

I bought two of these as well. (Didn't we already talk about this? ) I have two silver ones that are the tight beams.

I gave Frank one of my Intova's I bought to use this weekend. I think he likes them. I'll let him tell you.

Michael

This is probably not the thread for it, but who all is going to Vortex this weekend?  I have changed my plans to arrive on Friday afternoon, and will be staying through Sunday.  We can talk about all this kind of stuff at the campground.

Jim

[frankc420]

This is probably not the thread for it, but who all is going to Vortex this weekend?  I have changed my plans to arrive on Friday afternoon, and will be staying through Sunday.  We can talk about all this kind of stuff at the campground.

Jim

We'll be leaving Jackson, MS at 10am (ish) so we should arrive around 3-4pm, depending on how many stops we make.  We plan to stay through at least lunch Sunday.

[Don Wray]

Sorry Michael, but the PADI Wreck specialty does teach penetration.

Depths
18 metres/60 feet recommended without Deep Diver certification
30 metres/100 feet limit for Dive 1 (Wreck Adventure Dive)
40 metres/130 feet from the surface (vertical and horizontal distance
included) and within the light zone for penetration dives. No out-of-air drills
may be practiced in the overhead environment.

[Don Wray]

We teach how to properly run a line, teach about leaving stage bottles, redundant air sources, finning not disturbing the silt, penetration limits, etc.  Reading over the course guidelines it appears, if taught properly, an excellent course.  In addition to penetration, mapping and navigation of a wreck, including what if the line breaks, silt outs etc.

[frankc420]

Don, are you able to teach it yet? 

Better yet, could you give me the requirements? (And cost via PM, if you are able to teach it)

[mwhities]

Sorry Michael, but the PADI Wreck specialty does teach penetration.

Ahh, I stand corrected. I was told no...